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For goodness sake guys, can't you just let it settle?

Just leave it alone and stop stir'in up the crap, wait a while and see what happens, walk away from it and just let it die down and the solution will become clear.

Then, after a while, you can better access just what it is that you are going to end up with out of this whole situation.....after all, you can remove wax from regular shellac by letting it settle and then decanting the liquid, I am sure this would make a fine sealer and cheap to.

(I agree with Rod, the initial post is not build specific. Lets try to stay on topic or we loose the point of this place)

Cheers

Kim

Is that like ear wax Kim? Sooooo q-tips are not the right approach?

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Rod,

Qtips are fine, just don't use the yellow ones out of the bin in the bathroom unless you giv'em a good wash first and you will be fine

Of course, discourse and argument are healthy and can result in further knowledge of our subject matter. I am the last person to, in any way, discourage information by argument.
I pointed out the conversations that imparted information and knowledge are welcome.
The personal or quasi-personal remarks are those to which I object.

Lance, are you just trying to seal the end grain of the rosette so that the CA won't bleed color into the edges around the rosette?

I had a very unpleasant experience sealing cedar with shellac before I was ready to spray the entire top. The alcohol dissolved the color in the cedar and brought it to the surface. When I sanded the area, and sprayed the final shellac coat, there wasn't color to bleed up in the first areas, and when finished, the cedar looked like spruce, after resanding the whole top.

Target Coatings (800-752-9922) makes a water based shellac which doesn't penetrate very deeply, is easy to sand off, and doesn't dissolve color. Thus, it works great for just protecting around CA. I just don't use it for the undercoat, as it doesn't stick very well. It also raises the grain a bit in the grooves, but I compensate a few mil when routing, and it works well.

Because it doesn't dissolve color, it also works well to fill hardwood grain using it as a fine sanding lubricant to work the sanded wood into the grain. Any color getting on the binding can easily be wiped off with a wet rag. It sticks better on hardwood, and with the surface wiped clean, accepts regular shellac.

Then, I use Zinsser's.

Scott

Lance,
   I have used a can of spray shellac for years to seal those edges before
seeping in my CA with good results. I always spray it lightly around the
rosette before using it and aroung my binding/purfling ledges as well.

   I just let it dry for a few minutes and then drip in the CA as
needed....no beleeding or soaking into the top at all and a very clean
finished look.

    I'm not using the technique as much for my binding and purfling today,
but have in the past and probably will sometimes in the future, but it is
my standard procedure for rosettes.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

Thanks guys,
I picked up a can today

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

[QUOTE=LanceK] Thanks guys,
I picked up a can today [/QUOTE]

Thanks for leaving the 'worms' out of it Lance!

I use spray lacquer from the local craft store, works GREAT, don't know why others don't. One of my customers uses CA for the abalone purfs he trims some of his guitars with and you can see the yellow areas where the CA wicked into the spruce. He claimed that it was just accepted. He builds about 80 to 100 guitars a year in his shop in the upper mid range for pricing/quality. It sure wouldn't take any time really to eliminate that issue, or this one !

Shane

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Canada

Shane,

    I've heard a few builders say things like that over the years, "Those
glue drips inside rhe guitar are acceptable.", "That seeping of color into
the top from purflings is acceptable.", "Those dips and imperfections in
the finish are acceptable."

    That's one of the reasons that they'll remain mostly unheard of or will
get a reputation for sloppy or lazy building. These are things that take
only a few minutes to clean up or to take measures to prevent, but it's
easier to just assume or tell themselves that everybody does it or that it's
acceptable industry wide.

    I built a few guitars early in my earliest years and didn't know about
the sealer for seeping in CA and those same bleeding areas are in them.
I'm embarrassed to see them now, but their owners don't seem to notice
or mind. It's funny to look back at our earliest guitars to see how far
we've come in knowledge and workmanship.

     Skill and knowledge increase with exposure to more guitars as we
build them. As time passes and that number of instrumwnts built by us
increases, so will the quality, attenton to detail and overal fit and finish
accuracy. We've had our share of guys with very little experience totuting
themselves as leading authorities...even recently....just because someone
has told them they they're the greatest. They need to get aroune more
people with their work before they out too much stock in what they hear.
Mybe they're just believing what they want to hear, though....which is
something we all need to be careful not to do.

    With 80 to 100 a year production fo a small shop, there's no excuse for
your friend not taking some small steps to avoid this stuff. Look at how
they do it a the Taylor shop, they keep a touch up spray gun and pot feed
right at the table where rosettes are installed and the installer just shoots
it and sets it aside while he does another to allow it to dry before
installing. How many guys are working in that shop?

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

Not doing clean spotless work just dont make sense to me.
Kevin it was you, Kathy Wingert, Lance McCullom, Hank Mauel, and a few others at the 13th fret that got me started in the right direction.
After seeing the clean crisp look of your guitars inside and out, I had to try my best to duplicate it.

Setting that excample for me has worked out well.

Thanks..

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Kevin,

I couldn't agree more. I only just starting at guitar building but have many years in woodworking and have never accepted sloppy work. You see it all the time and most don't mind. But I agree, you need to keep the work clean to show your customers the respect you have for yourself and your work. It will also show your customer that you DO pay attention to and fuss over the details, that gives them a bit more comfort in going to you with their money.

Shane

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Canada

Mr Sheppard is also a very good example of that!

Dennis Scannell is also a great example of a very clean build as well as Jim Olson. There is a very big list of clean builders out there.

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

How does the saying go? Cleanliness is next(close) to godliness?

I'm not an expert but I'm sure that all the top dogs perform very clean work...

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If a customer wants dirty they can go corporate!

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